Voiceover 00:02

This is Foundational Impact, the podcast from Goodnotes for the Good Future Foundation, a new nonprofit that aims to empower teachers and schools to thrive. Let's get into this episode right now.

Daniel Emmerson 00:16

Welcome everybody once again to Foundational Impact, a podcast series that explores artificial intelligence in education from the perspective of Good Future Foundation, a non profit dedicated to bridging the digital divide between schools. I'm here today with Yom Fox, who is a dear friend and the high school principal at Georgetown Day School in Washington, DC. I'm going to be speaking today with Yom about her role as a senior leader at a school, and together we're going to be exploring what the landscape looks like as far as technology, equity and artificial intelligence looks like. So, Yom, thank you ever so much for being with us as part of this series.

Yom Fox 01:00

I'm excited to be here.

Daniel Emmerson 01:02

I'd love to start, Yom, by just asking you a little bit about your role as a senior leader at GDS, just to give our audience an idea of what that means and a little bit about what your day to day looks like.

Yom Fox 01:15

Sure, my day to day, I wish it was sort of straightforward. It changes, really. But I think that, you know, my role is to be an advocate for students and to the best of my ability to think about possible futures and shape those possible futures with dedicated adults in terms of equipping students with tools, language, technology, all of the things that they need to succeed in a world that we haven't yet conceived of. My day to day, what that looks like is coming in every morning, standing in the car line, saying hello to students as they enter, and try to avoid making eye contact with me because I'm the principal and I'm probably the least cool person in the building. That's okay. I do a lot of having meetings with faculty members to think about what they need in the classroom. I often connect with my counterparts in the lower school and the middle school to find out what's sort of percolating, what's going on in their respective divisions, and seeing if there's sort of overlap of things and to the best of our ability. You know, they say teamwork makes the dream work, right? Troubleshooting together towards a positive outcome. Then after sort of administrative meetings in the morning, I try to walk around the building, drop in on a class or two. I will likely get stopped by a student who has come into the high school office to grab a snack, and they'll tell me about the test that they're anxious about, the game that they may or may not have won, something small that will, you know, turn into another longer conversation. And now I'm late to the next meeting. But that's okay because really the best part of my day is talking with students. I'm not as able to be in the classroom as much, so I look for those, those moments. But a lot of my day is trying to connect with different people in this ecosystem that is the high school.

Daniel Emmerson 03:26

And just so that we have a bit more context with regards to the school itself, could you give us a very quick rundown as to, as to what that's like?

Yom Fox 03:34

Yeah. So Georgetown Day school is a pre-k through twelve school. We have just over 1000 students. In the high school we have about 500. So half the school is in grades nine through twelve over here in the upper or high school, depending on where you are geographically. Secondary school. And we were founded, our mission is centered in social justice and equity work. We were the first integrated school in DC and our founders wanted to make it so that students of different races, ethnicities and economic classes could go to school together and learn together as a way to create the future that we wanted. That was wanted then.

Daniel Emmerson 04:25

So within that context, what would you say are the core challenges that occupy your leadership team?

Yom Fox 04:30

In this ever changing world, we talk a lot about right now, the hot topic of the day is cell phones, mental health and wellness, making sure that everything that we do is accessible. And that's in all forms of accessibility, financially accessible, the way in which we provide instruction. Are we able to meet all learners where they are? Are we able to communicate our values right through the way we teach and to whom all of all manner of things fall under that accessibility context, that lens. But really our biggest push right now is student mental health. Along with that, we've been talking a lot about AI and what that means in the classroom and what that means for students in the future. And I think that, you know, really how to be a good school community that also responds to what's going on outside of our walls, right. That we are not closed off from the reality of everyday life, not only in Washington DC, but beyond.

Daniel Emmerson 05:40

And you mentioned cell phones and mental health and AI. I'm getting a sense of some kind of intersection between the wellness of students and technology that's playing a part of their lives. Would you say that's a fair assumption? And what does that mean for, I don't know, things like strategic thinking when you're thinking about trying to overcome the challenges that these things bring to the school?

Yom Fox 06:06

Well, I think challenges for sure, but also opportunities. Right. Like, I think one of the things I may have mentioned is a lot of my job is trying to make sure that we equip students with the tools for a world that I can't imagine. Right. That's also rapidly changing. So let me back up for a second here. This year, we're going phones off and away in the high school, so we are asking students not to have their phones. There's one part of me that knows it's the right thing to do in the face of some very real mental health challenges that folks are experiencing, and also knowing that we are trying to do a better job of teaching digital citizenship and literacy at the same time. Because on the one hand, the phone is just a vehicle. Right? And so I was saying to a student, actually, earlier this morning, we were talking that, like, it's actually easy to say, phone's off and away. The bigger challenge is now that phones are off and away, how are we ensuring that there's real one to one connection between student to student, student to teacher, and what are we doing to foster that? And then I also know that they go home. Right. So are we giving them the tools to be discerning consumers of social media, of news, of all of these inputs that are coming in when they're not with us? It would be the height of hubris to think that, oh, from eight to 315, we've got them, we do all this stuff, and then they're set to go, and they're good, right? Really, it's okay. We have them for this finite amount of time. Are we giving them what they need when they're not with us? That's really the challenge, is figuring out what that gap is. Additionally, when I think about cell phones, I have a friend who loves to use a pen, and he's like, you know, a pen can be a single use device. And that has stuck with me for years. As you know, cell phones, when I was. I'm aging myself, but, you know, I had my Nokia phone, and you were sending a text, and it was like four letters at a time fit on the screen. Right? And it used to be a single use device. Maybe you could do two things. You could make a call, you could send a text. Now, cell phones are cameras. They're music players. They're mini computers. They are so many things. And so then I'm also thinking about, what is the implication of taking that tool? Because it is also a tool out of the classroom. Right. And so what are the things that I can, along with teachers, implement so that our students are not at a disadvantage of knowing how to use the technology in appropriate and good ways. So it's that balance always of, okay, they're using phones in ways that are good and also detrimental to their emotional well being and growth and all that, and wanting to be very deliberate about how we empower them and teach them to use it as a tool for good. It would be nice to say, like, phones are all bad, right, or they're all good, but it's much more nuanced than that. And as educators, it's our responsibility to acknowledge that nuance, plan for that nuance, and then help students and their families really figure out what that means and how we sort of bridge those gaps.

Daniel Emmerson 09:51

What about when it comes to your staff, your faculty at school, and new technology, perhaps that's coming in that might be able to either assist or find solutions or even present challenges? How much time as a school do you spend on discussing technology and its implications?

Yom Fox 10:11

I think we probably spend a lot of time talking about technology and its implications. It would be nice to say that everybody here is super excited about technology all the time, and that's not true. And that's actually okay. Right. We actually want the spectrum of responses to technology, right. It helps us to be responsible. Right. In terms of its use. It helps us to think about, you know, is this a quick fix? Right. Is there something more that we should be doing or be doing in a different way? I think that faculty are responsive to professional development in their particular domains as it relates to technology. It's hard to have a conversation about technology or even AI as an entire faculty, because it impacts different disciplines in different ways. And so the best example, we had a faculty meeting where we were talking about all the rise of the chatbots and ChatGPT and all of that. And some folks were talking about it feeling like, really an attack on their content areas and their ways of knowing and teaching. And then you had a bunch of math teachers are like, what do you feel like? What do you think happened when the calculator was it like, you know, and so when we talk about technology, I think we are primed to think about big things, right? Nobody necessarily thinks about the calculator anymore as this, like, huge technological advancement that fundamentally changed the way in which math instruction happened. But it did, right? And so there's a point where I'm looking to the math teachers, I'm looking to my language teachers who have seen, like, Duolingo or other types of technology for a long time, right. Impact the way in which they interact with students in the classroom and outside of the classroom to help guide us. Right. You could even look at, I think, about my art teachers and, like, the use of Photoshop, right? How they have for years been digitally altering photos, paintings, etc. What can those other disciplines teach us about how to incorporate AI in ways that we didn't know? Like, if you had told me ten years ago, let's say ten years ago when I started my career, ten times three, that's okay. Would I be dealing with this? I couldn't imagine. And that's what I'm sort of talking about. A little bit of like, we have to teach students about a world that we can't even fathom, right. And we need to do it responsibly. And so we are actually looking to each other about, like, what has worked, what hasn't worked, and how we can iterate on that process.

Daniel Emmerson 13:22

And do those conversations about artificial intelligence go beyond content to things like homework?

Yom Fox 13:29

Yes.

Daniel Emmerson 13:30

Assessment. And what do those conversations look like at your school?

Yom Fox 13:35

They're very lively. You know, I think one of the things that we are really, really stressing for faculty is to ease into it, right? Find an entry point, because whether or not we approve or like it, students are engaging with it, and it is within our best interest and service to them for us to at least at minimum dip our toe in the water, right. So that we can guide them, because otherwise they're navigating it on their own. So we should be able to say, you know, if you are going to use it for homework, right. You should be using it responsibly and in this way that when you go to ChatGPT, don't copy wholesale. What are the ways in which it can actually enrich your work? What are some ways in which using that as a prompt for potential thesis statements, etc, can actually help your writing, help the creative process as opposed for just like copying and pasting, right. That that's maybe just like basic level of how it can help you. Rather thinking about what can I get, how can I improve? Is what we want students to be asking themselves. Those are the questions when it comes to AI. And hopefully this year teachers are going to be doing more of that. And so we are asking teachers this year specifically to teach students how to evaluate sort of like the safety, the effectiveness, and the ethics of using AI, right? Whether it's on an assignment to generate ideas, all of that, because I think it is in students best interest and we've all committed to be here to do what's in the best interest of students?

Daniel Emmerson 15:43

Absolutely right. And a lot of the schools that we speak with in terms of our work for the foundation, one of the biggest challenges that they're finding is the ability to find time for a lot of these conversations. It's very, very difficult to carve any additional room out for professional development for teachers in under-resourced and over strained schools. Have you got a sense yet, Yom? Do you think of the importance that schools should be placing on technology when thinking about the next generation and their access to social mobility and whatever the world of work might look like in the next few years?

Yom Fox 16:25

I mean, I think it's critically important. There's no part of me that imagines a world within which students, I'd say pre-k through twelve. Right. Aren't impacted. You mentioned time. It is hard to find time. And I say it's hard to find time because the technology is changing so fast. Colleague says there's the soon and the now and they are constantly cycling. Right. We're like, okay, I've got it now. And then it's like, and soon it will be different. And you've blinked and you're. That soon is now the now. Like, what do we do? And so I think in terms of finding time to do this work, it's wherever you can. And knowing that there will likely be a bit of a lag between the technology, our understanding, and then our ability to work with students to enhance their understanding. And it's an opportunity because I will say kids are better at this than we are. They are. So it's an opportunity for co-generative space where students are just as much a part of the creation of the learning opportunities and experiences as the faculty are. So it actually is in the best interest of faculty to be asking students and hopefully creating spaces for them to say, honestly, like, this is how I use it, this is how I could envision using it. Right. And then it allows teachers to one understand sort of where students' thinking is around it and be able to respond, I think in real time. It's a challenge, though, to find that time. It is. It really is.

Daniel Emmerson 18:17

And when thinking about different stakeholder groups in the school environment. So we've spoken a little bit about students and faculty. What about board level conversations around AI and also parent conversations as well? Are those things that have fallen into that conversation in any way?

Yom Fox 18:38

Yeah, I mean, I asked at my end of the year email, I sent out a survey and said, whoever wants to fill it out, like, tell me your thoughts on smartphones and AI in schools and a lot of parents and students, I'll say, are focused on the ways in which AI is sort of detrimental. And I would say even faculty to some extent of using AI to pass off work, that is not their own breaches of academic integrity. And that's a huge part of the conversation. I would say it's a huge part of the conversation and actually the smallest part in reality. And parents want to make sure that if AI is used in the classroom by teachers, by faculty, by staff, that their children's sort of privacy is protected. That's, you know, first and foremost, then an understanding of is there an advantage or disadvantage for future, whether we're looking, thinking about, you know, the next course or college. Right. How is AI being leveraged in the classroom in support of their child's growth and learning? I have to say I didn't get very many parents saying like, no, they don't want their children engaging with AI, but it was more about the effective and responsible use because they too are like, well, I don't know really what my kid does with AI if they're playing around with it or they're nothing. So if you can help shine some light on that, we'd be really appreciative of it. And then there's, I think always, like most things, there's just a fear, right? And then when we think about AI and social media and like, all the things that we're reading about in the news of, like, Deepfakes and like, how could that, like, impact my child and that fear? And again, I think it goes back to trying to create a really safe and healthy ecosystem within the school where we are connecting in person, one on one, all of that. But those are sort of like what I hear from parents. In terms of the board, you know, lucky here at GDS to have a really good board that trusts us as senior leaders to be having these conversations and reporting to them on what we think is best. Sure, they may send us an article or two about something they've read, but they really aren't the ones, in my experience, sort of driving us to have the conversation, which is very freeing in a lot of ways. So I think there's an appropriate amount of support.

Daniel Emmerson 21:18

So I'm wondering, just as a final point here, what you might say to another head of school who was perhaps struggling to find the resource capacity to either look at things like electives for digital citizenship or find ways to build professional development into their inset at the beginning of the academic year. Have you got any, any learnings or any ideas or suggestions that you might be able to share on any of these things?

Yom Fox 21:48

I love a working group because people who are passionate about it will find the time. You don't have to find it for them. Right. So one of the things that I'm doing this year with my staff is I put out. I will put out again at the end of the school year. I said, I'm going to have this working group that's looking at, I have two one that's looking at smartphones and its impact on the school and then one that's looking at AI. And for both of the working groups, I am having mirrored student groups who are having discussions on the same thing so that they can come together at optimal times to have a dialogue, have conversations and then hoping to go back to faculty, going back to parent, as you mentioned, the different stakeholders within the school community and saying, like, for the people who are living this experience in real time, this is how it is impacting them, this is what they are thinking about. And that will help me in determining what direction we need to go in. Right. What are the areas that I can sort of give more support for faculty or for students when it comes to learning, professional learning for faculty and students in terms of their learning in the classroom, when we're talking about either AI or the use or removal of cell phones from their day at school. But I think it is creating a working group and finding that small group of people to help set the agenda, set the conversation, and then sort of like going out in small batches, I guess is the best way to do it. But steady.

Daniel Emmerson 23:35

That's some awesome advice. Yom, thank you ever so much indeed for your thoughts and reflections on what is a constantly evolving, an exciting subject for us to be exploring. It's wonderful to have you with us on the podcast series. Folks who are listening do check out Yom online. There's so much interesting work that's happening at her school and beyond. Yom, it's an absolute delight. Thank you so much.

Yom Fox 24:01

Thank you so much for having me, Daniel.

Daniel Emmerson 24:03

Folks, we will catch you for our next episode very, very soon. All the best for now.

Voice Over

That's it for this episode. Don't forget the next episode is coming out soon, so make sure you click that option to follow or subscribe. It just means you won't miss it. But in the meantime, thank you for being here and we'll see you next time.

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