‍Daniel 00:00

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Foundational Impact.

‍

Voiceover 00:05

This is Foundational Impact, the podcast from Goodnotes for the Good Future Foundation, a new nonprofit that aims to empower teachers and schools to thrive. Let's get into our first episode right now.

‍

Daniel 00:20

My name is Daniel Emmerson, and I am both the academic affairs lead at Goodnotes and the executive director of Good Future Foundation, a brand new nonprofit that aims to empower teachers and schools to thrive in an AI infused world. Foundational impact sets out to explore the trials and tribulations of building a nonprofit from the ground up, while also investigating the changing world of technology in life, learning and work. I'm delighted to be joined here in our first episode by two remarkable individuals and esteemed trustees of Good Future Foundation, Steven Chan, the founder of Goodnotes, and Doctor Minh Tran, VP of operations at Goodnotes. Thank you both for joining me today. I'd like to start, if I may, with you, Steven, and just to ask for a little bit of background with your experience with technology and why you were interested in a nonprofit.

‍

Steven 01:15

Thank you, Daniel. Very happy to be here today. So for me, personally, so I've been very interested in computers since a very young age. So I got my first laptop as a birthday gift [from] my father. Since then, I discovered my personal interest in programming computer technology, and I just couldn't stop building things like myself. And then I really enjoy sharing whatever I create with my friends, classmates, colleagues, and family. So, fast forward to when I was in college. So I was getting the iPad on the first day, and I was so fascinated by being able to touch your apps. And then I got the idea of creating a note taking app, basically for myself at the beginning. And then so surprisingly many people are so happy with the product, and then they recommend to other people. And then that's how we got started with Goodnotes, and now we have a big team working on the product. And then in the past couple of years, we also… So many amazing things happening with AI and technology and machine learning, and then there's so many new products being built. And then I gradually realized that I was kind of thinking whether the new generations are prepared for this technology, for AI. And I guess that's how we got the idea of maybe we should have a foundation to kind of bridge that gap so that the future generations are very well prepared for AI and new technologies.

‍

Daniel 02:55

Thanks, Steven. I'd like to come to you, Minh, if that's all right, because you have quite an extraordinary background, firmly rooted in education, and you've moved across into the tech world since then. Would you mind telling us a bit about your roots in teaching and learning and what drove you towards technology?

‍

Minh 03:15

Yeah, thanks, Daniel. Super exciting to be here with you both and for this foundation to get off the ground. Really fun to see it happening. I started my career as a fifth-grade math and science teacher in Los Angeles, and then I taught at a university in Hong Kong where I'm now based. And after that I've worked with many governments on scaling training and assessment programs across the world. I have a PhD in language education in particular, and educational psychology looking at student motivation. So, yeah, as you said, I really started my career as an educator and still feel like an educator at heart today. Why tech? Well, it's the reason why tech is so sexy, right? Tech is changing the world. And what drives me today is to be in a startup that is at the forefront of that technology and why I'm so passionate about this foundation and what the potential of it is that we can offer to schools that are grappling with. What do we do with all this fast-evolving technology that's emerging every day?

‍

Daniel 04:35

Right.

‍

Minh 04:35

Almost every day. It feels like something new is coming out. We can keep up, even those of us working in tech. How can we expect schools that have their enormous workload day to day, just getting through the day with your lessons for teachers, how can we expect them to keep up? So our thinking for the foundation is let's bring those of us who are at the forefront of this technology evolution to support schools, to curate for schools what's going on and what's good that schools can use, and for us to marry that with pedagogy and methodology so that we can help teachers think about both the content of AI. What about AI should we be teaching? And also the methodology of using AI to teach. So that's what this is about and why I think this is so needed and why I think we're really uniquely positioned to do this.

‍

Daniel 05:43

Thank you, Minh. I think there's an interesting conversation there to be had around the needs that schools have in this space in 2023. Of course, Goodnotes worked on a large piece of research on generative AI in schools, and we focused on things like writing guidelines and policies. We focused on homework, coursework and assessment, as well as professional development and indeed collaboration across the education sector. At the time, every school seemed to be at the same starting line when it came to AI for teaching and learning. As an example, things have moved on a little bit since then, and as we know, there are schools that have very different resource capabilities in being able to address some of the concerns around fast moving technology. I wanted to ask you both, how important do you really think it is that schools focus on artificial intelligence, for example, while they're so under resourced and they're struggling with day-to-day teaching and learning, and also things like behavioral and social engagement?

‍

Minh 06:49

I mean, a school can only do what it can do. I started my career in an extremely under resourced school, in a school with most students having lots of different issues, whether it's family, behavioral, psychological. Half of one of my classes had IEPs. So you can only do so much, right? And that's the work of the foundation, and I hope the work of many other nonprofits in the world to support those schools, to grapple with what they need to do in terms of getting students into the world of AI, it's not a choice for schools that can, and to the extent that they can, they need to be getting teachers and students immersed in this world, because this is the new reality. And if schools don't have students and teachers immersed in this world, the gap between the classroom and the workplace will only widen, because already today, in the modern workplace, regardless of function, regardless of industry, regardless of seniority, people are using AI. So, and it's only going to be more and more of the case. So schools need to do this. But again, with the reality, the harsh reality of the under resourced schools, there's only so much they can do, and it's our job to support them in this.

‍

Steven 08:24

Yes, I can speak from my personal experience. I feel very lucky and privileged to be able to get a computer since a young age and then the first iPad on the first day, because I think it's through these opportunities that I discovered my interest, and then that's how we also funded the company. So I feel like I'm very privileged to be exposed to these opportunities. I'm hoping that all our new generation can be exposed to AI and new technologies, even in the under resourced schools. So that's why I think that's the very reason why we want to start this foundation, to really give everyone this same level playing field, so that they're very well prepared for the future.

‍

Daniel 09:13

Thank you both. I think there is an inherent connection, of course, between the work that we've done in our research, the technological need for so many schools that we're talking about at the moment when it comes to addressing things like the disparity gap between schools that have access to great technology and schools that don't, the impact of that on social mobility in the future and also the work that Goodnotes is doing in developing its own products. Now, we all work at Goodnotes, and I think that's something that the audience would like to know a little bit more about in terms of the relationship between good future foundation and Goodnotes. Is this just a vehicle for bringing Goodnotes more broadly into the education space, or is there something, something deeper in there?

‍

Minh 09:59

Yeah, as I said earlier. Right. The connection for me is bringing together those who are at the forefront of technology today, those of us at Goodnotes, and are friends in the tech space. So it's not just Goodnotes. We have so many wonderful friends in the tech industry who always want to be giving back and be connecting those who need their help. So it's connecting those at the forefront of technology with those in the classroom and bridging that gap. That's the work of the foundation. And Goodnotes role in this is offering that connection. And that's where, as I said, I feel we are uniquely positioned. And the impact intended is really to help, again, under resourced schools, and just schools in general in the world, to have access to quality training on AI for education so that they can cascade then that training to learners.

‍

Daniel 10:55

Thank you, Minh. I think there's also something around the importance of AI in the future of work, and this is something that you've touched on already. One of the things that schools prioritize above all else is preparing young people for what comes next, what is coming next, particularly as far as AI is.

‍

Steven 11:13

Concerned, that's a big question. I think no one really knows. And then we are all got really amazed by the capabilities of large language models. So one thing that wasn't possible before was having the ability to understand language. Now AI seems to understand language really well, and then they can actually digest huge amounts of information and then being able to communicate like a human. So we are still all, I believe we are still all figuring out how that will change industries, how that will change learning, how that will change how people work. I think, at least from my personal point of view, probably everyone will have an AI agent helping them who communicates like a human. And then how would the workspace, or even in school, how would it look like when everyone has access to AI agents helping them with different tasks? So I think this is still an open question, a very interesting, very fascinating open question.

‍

Daniel 12:24

Thank you, Steven. I think the last area for us to discuss today is the nature of nonprofits themselves. Nonprofits are very common, certainly in the UK and indeed around the world, and there are many that are setting out to address things like disparity in the tech space and indeed in education. I'm wondering if either of you have any particular experience working with nonprofits that you'd like to share? And if I could also ask, what do you think makes a successful nonprofit?

‍

Minh 12:53

I'm extremely honored that this is the fourth nonprofit of which I'm a trustee currently, so I'm on four boards at the moment. Previously, other boards have also helped a charity in Hong Kong called Just Feel get off the ground. So I was a founding trustee there for three years, and it's to teach social emotional learning to underprivileged primary schools in Hong Kong, where there are a lot of social emotional issues. So, as you said, there are many nonprofits, and I'm from the US, and in the US, there have been questions about the efficacy of nonprofits, especially those that cover similar areas. Should they be combining forces? Should we do m and a of nonprofits to make them more efficient and to scale their impact? For instance. Right? There have always been these questions. From my perspective, it's okay, actually to have redundant nonprofits that overlap because each is taking care of a neighborhood. They can impact those that they can reach, and our world is better for it. I think well intended nonprofits that have levelheaded leaders thinking about really carefully how they should have impact and what kind of impact that they want to have and make sure that every dollar donated is well spent. If that's the case and they're doing good, I think that's good for the world.

‍

Daniel 14:37

Thanks, Minh, and thank you both very, very much indeed for joining me today on this episode, one of foundational impact. Audience, I hope you've enjoyed this conversation as much as I have, and I hope you'll join us for episode two, where we'll be investigating law and ethics around AI, also in the nonprofit space with Nebs Arslan. More information on that coming soon. Thank you once again for being with us today, and we'll catch up next time on Foundational Impact.

‍

Voiceover 15:09

That's it for this episode. Don't forget, the next episode is coming out soon, so make sure you click that option to follow or subscribe. It just means you won't miss it. But in the meantime, thank you for being here, and we'll see you next time.